Lee, thanks for your clarification on Hugh's post where your slide presentation appeared (http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveable_Type/archives/004645.html). I have been in IT for many years now (humble systems administrator) and this presentation really struck a chord with me, particularly the part where "we need to place people above structures & systems". Isn't this principle so true! Wishing you continued success in this endeavor.